Luca Meldolesi, Professor of Economic and Financial Policy at the University of Naples is also one of the foremost authorities on Albert Hirschman's work and legacy. On this episode of Research at the Albert Hirschman Centre on Democracy, Professor Meldolesi reflects on Albert Hirschman's work but also on what it means for the future, what is left to be done.
Luca Meldolesi, Professor of Economic and Financial Policy at the University of Naples is also one of the foremost authorities on Albert Hirschman's work and legacy.
On this episode of Research at the Albert Hirschman Centre on Democracy, Professor Meldolesi reflects on Albert Hirschman's work but also on what it means for the future, what is left to be done.
For more information visit www.graduateinstitute.ch/democracy
Luca Meldolesi, Albert Hirschman's colleague and friend, and also the caretaker of all his documents. He founded the A Collorni Institute in Rome and Institute that like ours is a tribute to Hirschman's intellectual legacy. Today. He is the guest of Christine Lutringer, our center's executive director for this podcast.
First episode, welcome to this episode of research at the Albert Hirschman center on democracy, a podcast by researchers for researchers. Where we explore her husband's legacy by engaging in their field work, methodological and theoretical inquiries.
Thank you very much for joining us for this conversation today, you are connecting from the Colone Hitchman Institute that you have founded in Rome. You have personally been inspired by Albert Hirschman's and Virginia colonias work, thoughts and life experiences, their intellectual and life journeys.
Yes. Men's therm that ranged from fighting oppression to building peace and development. Following the second world war, they have profoundly shaped the world view and engagement of many scholars and practitioners for several generations. It is fascinating to see how your shamans and colonias ideas are put in practice.
In Italy Mezzogiorno know the possibilities who have gathered around you have launched bold and innovative projects as entrepreneurs, civil servants, and activists. We will come back to it in this conversation.
First question is a personal one. You have been very close to Albert Tishman for more than 20 years, interacting with him in Europe and in the America. Albert left you with his manuscripts documents, and also the motivation to continue with trespassing boundaries. Can you tell us how you got to know Albert Tishman and how he changed your worldview?
Many things first, the role for this or the questions, inevitably, this is a long story between now and then myself. So it will not. Not 15 minutes. I think the best thing I can do is to put myself in the position of explaining you, because, you know, if someone was a very ingenious guy who was seeing ideas and so many of them were known, but then the others are not so or not used the normally.
So I'm not talking about actually the voice of thing, but then. Trying to answer your questions with its own words. So, first of all, this is the first question and that would answer is it's been spontaneous constellation of two sounds specific and general. Specifics, I would say that it was worried about the term in which the culture in United States was flowing and also the political at the time that these I'm talking about.
I was worried our things were developing. So it was the time for him to speak up a little more since he was very quiet guy, he's developed this authority for a long time, but they didn't explain it properly, even for him to give ideas. Without much explanation. Once it told me, for instance, assembled, he asked me, oh, do you get these ideas?
So, uh, it was asking me, what should I answer? I answered. That is obvious that the few were not the least serious in working on this work,
but then is even a general point of view that
something new is very considered good and new and something should be good. And then the Italian culture should be good. First and then maybe it's okay if he's new, but of course we own country in which ancient culture is also important. So, so for me, the important thing was to be on the, and actually my problem was this way of thinking.
So reconstruct all the various phases of his life.
My second question is about your book entitled, discovering the possible, the surprising world of Albert Hirschman. You recount over half a century of here from man's work, exploring the motivations methodology and unexpected developments of his research published simultaneously in Italian, Spanish and English in 1995.
And it was the first time. To probe the whole Corpus of Hirschman's work. Can you tell us maybe about one or more of his key concepts that were most surprising or intriguing to you? For me, there are some of them that particularly important. One is complications complications. It means some results in a certain discipline or mixed disciplines.
And then you'll shift them to. Let's do another initiative for instance, politics or something, but there's also a spontaneous. So you know that you are studying economics and then some ideas come to you from social sciences and mix in complicated economics is important. So they booked that in Italian.
English is now is out. It's called economics should be complicated. So this complication that is so important, we just brought me out of the deep throat. That is, you know, you are either on one side or on the other side. Uh, You are on a, on a neoclassical or
not. This is no see that that economics is economic potential, but the reality is much more important to the people.
She, he sat that Jim is yes, of course you should concentrate of a reality that should be able to. That is, for instance, if you are in a developed countries, you should never forget the non developed part of the world. So for instance, I'm now editing another book that I've been publishing. Within that there's the seat countenance.
This is the title is what's the, do you need the America economics development of democracy in Europe, the United States. And so this actually is very important, you know? You never forget that you should forget the door. If you are in Germany, never, you should never forget Germany. Or if you are in Europe, you should never subject and so on.
You never forget Eastern Europe. Thinking about Europe. Normally you think through the four biggest counties, but you should never forget that that is so important. So, this is, this is typical of him telling you that he was always spreads. You know, it was next to you sitting next to you. So if you, if you enter into your, your way of thinking now,
and so before, when you develop ideal, we may. Whether they are good or not develop them. So this is important and it's also important for the ideas that you are developing should be challenged and ideas not intelligent is wrong.
Because they, you know, they lamentation, they, they sat, they do the passivity, the
CLE negative. Another key idea.
This is something actually they have developed. So I will come back. To get back to possibilities. I'm in practice in Italy is met to Jordan. Can you give us an example of how possibilities influenced and motivated some concrete action around first of all, possibilities is not what in politics. Normally this is possible.
It's not possible. Just the events so that, you know, you should look for a opening. That somehow heat them and come out. Don't leave. You are very careful then observation, and then we'll try it from there to see where you should arrive. You're not passing through this and this therefore is not a day.
For instance, it's very important. You know, this is not. A positive mindset.
And if you really enter into that frame of mind normally works. So, you know, normally if you, something happens that you have to stop, people get discouraged. It's an impulsive. No, you stop. And then you're stuffed again. So for this reason, consideration and mediation, energy, I mean, I'm a guy of the sixties, so there's social energy was around, but my idea was to conserve and utilize.
For instance, if you now think to develop in China, for instance, you don't understand how this team out. If you have not been able to understand what the culture was, or for instance, you need to lead the development of the, after the second world war came out there, you don't know, there is a sense that it's impossible to understand.
But this is somehow could be spontaneous. It could be studied in it, but this specific of our experiences that we have provoked that, you know, we had the idea already because this is our idea. And we use this
is. Provoking the process. What does it mean? It means that many energies are dispersed. These are organized. You have to find ideas that push you in the right direction. And this is saying my teaching in Naples, and then also in other parts of the south, because it was in the government or, you know, finding the right people and pushing them in.
Well, what does it mean? It means that you have to know exactly their reality into their life, into the lives of their families and the DVDs around agriculture and so on and so forth. And then find the ways with possibilities for the improvement. And so opening up new ways. And this is really has been significant for us because we have been able to create networks and these networks tends to develop.
And in fact, it's now the idea that you should build small tassels, small constantly comes from Renaissance. Try to be autonomous in your relationship with quality and so on and so forth. So this is I would experience these taxes. My final question would be how can Hirschman and Kalani inspire your fresh approaches to democratic research and experiences today?
And then last,
I think, you know, this is my idea, but it's so much insight
that they've been working on. So none of this stuff. The Imperial domination in the, in the human experience, it's been so long, you know, from, from the Roman empire empire, then the center itself of the tragedies of that war. And then still, we are in a, in a reality in which they are dominated nowadays. No.
Is it general, what
know the national power is so much on that and thinking that, that, you know, they would open up a new story for all the world. So.
Then the specific idea on how to do it. So for me, that has been a demonstration that it was, but I will explain.
Thank you for listening to research at the Albert Hirschman central democracy for more on how our centerpiece tributes to Hirschman's key ideas, please visit our website at graduate Institute dot C H forward slash democracy, which is in the show notes below and tune in to future episodes where we will explore the wide ranging work of our researchers.